theNoosphere.com

So, what happened? It seems that we have arrived at the far end of the parabolic curve that was the life of TN. While it may be too early to eulogize the corpse, it does seem that the body is on life support from automatic news updates. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of brain activity left.

I am not a computer kind of guy. I use my computer for word processing, finances, and e-mail. Aside from a few posts on websites related to my profession, I have not posted or blogged much of anything, anywhere. I have followed my sibling Om in his adventures building various websites, including this one, and when he signed me up for a (free!) membership on TN, I thought it would be an interesting exercise to follow the birth and development of website from the beginning.

While poking around the infant TN site, I observed the following:

a. The founders, (Om, Boone, Henry, Pravda), are devout Redskins fans who were also were involved in the creation of Extremeskins (ES), a Redskin fan website with a leavening of social discourse.

b. Extremeskins grew from a bunch of beer and chips discussions between like minded individuals into the Nairobi bus station, with all the attendant chaos and confusion. The founders of ES jumped up and down and waved their arms and tried to maintain some semblance of control at ES, but eventually were drowned out and trampled by the crowd.

c. The founders, along with a significant number of TN members, are refugees from ES. While the mission statement of ES was pretty clear, (a Redskins fan site with some social talk on the side), the mission statement for TN was ambiguous. Was TN a purely social site? A social site with a Redskin flavoring? A replacement ES with the Redskins as the central character and social discourse as a supplement?

I discussed this with Om early on. The decision had been made that TN was to be an exclusively social site. However, my impression as an observer was that the magnet that attracted the founders and a large number of the TN membership together was not social discourse, but Redskin fandom. Absent the unifying Redskin theme, would this group hold together and attract new members? Would this group have ever come together had it not been for the commonality of a sports team fanaticism?

I believe that the answer is evident in the recent creation of the BGO website, another Redskin fan site with a leavening of social discourse, ES2 if you will. In light of the ES and TN experiences and lessons learned, I think that the group is reverting to the original reason for their friendship; the Redskins. I suspect that BGO will be more successful than TN because of a better idea of what the core membership constituency is. I’m not sure what measures have been taken to ensure that BGO does not become another ES.

I enjoyed the time I spent at TN. It was a learning experience. While my sports tastes gravitate more towards Texas high school football as opposed to the NFL, I did find subjects, conversations, and members at TN that appealed to me. Some members, (Servumtuum, Finbarr), I would have very much like to have met and shared a bottle of wine with, as we seem to have very common interests. Some writers, (Pete and his bike world), gave me insight into areas that I normally do not delve into. Some posts and threads were hilarious, some were sad, some were illuminating, and some were just plain weird. I attempted to contribute to the conversation, admittedly occasionally throwing a hand grenade just to see what reaction it provoked. While I have not converted and become a website geek, I did enjoy watching the genesis, growth, and apparently the imminent demise of this website.

And thus back to my original question; What happened? In my profession as an aviator, we always “debrief” after performing our jobs. As a fighter pilot I often spent from two to six hours reviewing, analyzing, dissecting, and discussing a one hour sortie I had just flown. In the airline world that I inhabit today, we are scheduled for a two hour debrief after every four hour simulator training event. The purpose is to learn from our experiences, avoid making the same mistakes again, and improve on what we did well. I’d like to invite the TN founders and membership (anyone still out there?) to contribute to this “lessons learned” thread regarding what could have been done better at TN, and why it now seems moribund.

***

As one who is never at a loss for words, let me add another thought:

The home page of TN says there are 225 members. Going to the “members list” shows that there is more to the story. Below is the number of posts per member:

Members with 0-10 posts = 182
Members with 11-50 posts = 23
Members with 51-100 posts = 8
Members with 101-500 posts = 9
Members with 501-1000 posts = 2
Members with 1001+ posts = 1 (Congratulations, Boone….)

In other words, there were only 43 active and contributing members. Some of the persons who introduced themselves and fall into the 0-10 post category sounded very interesting, but decided not to continue contributing. There were 23 members in the 11-50 post category. They clearly found something to like at TN, because they hung around and kept coming back. For awhile. Then they stopped. Why?

A suggestion: I presume that the TN founders have access to the e-mail addresses of all the members. You should select a few members and send them an e-mail asking what it is about TN that attracted them in the first place, what they liked while they were here, what they didn’t like while they were here, and why they left. I’d ask some of the 11-50 post group, such as Brave (40), Bruce (43), Chris (35), Fireweed (42), Skorteus (62), and Stevenaa (44). Maybe that would help you in future website endeavors.

I was hoping that TN was just experiencing a lag while efforts were focused on getting BGO up and running. And while I definitely think that contributed to the slow down, I'm not sure if that can be blamed for the apparent death of TN.

Although looking at the stats you pulled from the members' list is rather disconcerting. I don't know who all came here from ES, but it'd be interesting to know who of the 20 members with 51+ posts were originally part of ES. I suspect a fairly large percentage. If that's the case, then it would appear that the mutual fandom of the Redskins was the true attracting factor. Which would mean BGO will probably do great while TN fades away.

I can't speak for everyone that came from ES to this place but the Redskins were only a part of the equation for me.

I have for years been active (sometimes too active) on various and sundry other internet forums with ES being but one of those. I have maintained multiple sites with a certain amount of consistency but had really started to get tired of the "noise". I expressed this dissatisfaction to Om in a PM on ES back some 18 months ago when we were discussing the state of that site. I mentioned that if he found a new home on the internet for his writings that I hoped he would drop me a line so that I might visit.

Little did I know how he would take my use of the word "found".

Several months later I received an invite to join this site. After only a few weeks I gave up on nearly all of my other forum activity outside of this place. It was that good. Oh, I kept visiting ES but really only as a central repository for Redskins news. Living in Texas makes keeping up with my team a bit tough at times.

Over the last year, I have spent a good deal of time here, as my post count will no doubt indicate to anyone like Meteor who is doing their homework. It is still a homepage tab in Firefox for me, right between BGO and Facebook, and I still check here on a daily basis (often more than once and am usually logged in here all the time).

However, my activity level has indeed dropped.

While I can't speak for anyone else, I can say that involvement at BGO is but a small part of that drop. Anyone really paying attention may have noted a serious drop in March when my second child was born. As Henry noted at the time, having a second child is lot more than just adding 1+1 might appear and it cut into my free time seriously. Things have also gotten much busier for me at work, which doesn't so much cut into my posting time as it cuts into my research time for those posts. This is a place populated with bright people willing to do their homework so I feel the need to do my own homework. Without that, I am much more likely to read but remain silent (Lincoln said something about that once I think...).

For me, it is more a general lack of time. Bishop can attest to my lack of attention to my photo work which was once pretty consistent even if not an every day thing. He can also attest to my increased silence by Instant Messenger during the work day.

In short, for me, it is a phase that I am going through right now brought on by outside stresses only marginally related to how bad the Redskins are playing.

Once the second child is old enough to move around on her own and play with the first child and once things cycle back down at work, I plan to return to my previous level of participation here. I miss it. Frankly, I need it. And I have found no other place where it is possible.

There's a lot to respond to there...

First of all - you're right and you're wrong - we never birthed this site with the intention of it being a Redskins fan magnet. I think it happened that way purely and simply because, of the rabid and hungry for intelligent discussion that we knew, the vast majority happened to be like fans we'd met elsewhere. That was never our intent, nor even our desire.

One thing I don't think we appreciated was that, while our family, friends, co-workers might love us, and even enjoy what we might have to say, many of them just don't 'get' an internet community. I had dear friends I would've sworn would come here and become active members - didn't happen. Primarily because (at least this is my perception) they just don't understand how this kind of community works.

You are absolutely right on one of our core challenges - without a specifically stated 'interest' or core topic, how do we attract a quality membership. I think we added our tagline 'Taking Community to the Next Level' for just that reason, although even there, it's sort of a nebulous concept. That we actually had more than a few people pay for the privilege of joining, that is really incredible given the lack of a pure definitive topic. We probably made a mistake even going the 'pay' route if we're being honest.

So lets talk about 'what happened'

It's pretty simple really - we took the skills we honed on building this board and went to work creating our 2nd board. Again - you're right and you're wrong. We are passionate (miserable right now, but still passionate) Redskins fans. But truthfully - if I had to give up one site today and never return to it, I believe it'd be the football board. I love this place. Given that we've largely ignored it for 3-4 months, that may seem bizarre - but I still feel that way. I think it's because I've always loved the non-football conversations more than anything - and there's so much more possibility for discussion when you're not limited to one topic. I also rediscovered my love of writing here - and I'm not going to give it up.

I sent an email out to the other owners about 3 weeks ago, talking about re-launching this place. Maybe getting rid of any pay aspects, starting to market for it again, getting our previous members involved again (those that are interested), a complete 'do-over'. We've learned so much about building a quality website - I think we could really make this place shine and hum. I don't think I'm alone in wanting to get this going again - Henry has repeatedly discussed this with us. This place was and still could be not just a lot of fun, but an amazing community.

You mentioned the membership numbers - but that doesn't really matter to me. Every site I've ever been a part of has a core group that drives it, and many many casual ones or members who check in a couple of times and lose interest. Even with a handfull of active members, you'd be surprised how quickly that can grow. We were heading there when we decided to build our football site.

Something you never really said, but which I hope you meant, is that you'd love to see this place get cranked up again. Obviously, having posted more content here than anyone, I care about it. The inattention it's suffered is no reflection on what I feel to be the potential of it. I still feel that. And I still intend to get this going again - and I think we need to start now. Henry, Sol, Mark and I (I believe) all still want this to be a special place and I think it still could be. You know some of the other challenges some of us have been facing - so that's delayed revisiting this place too.

Thanks for the kick in the pants though (whether intended as such or just a rhetorical question). We'll either do something about it or we won't. Stick around and see....

John

Well, Meteor, you have managed to put into words something I've been thinking about for a while. Like, Neo, I have TN on my bookmarks bar, or as a main thumbnailed website and periodically have been checking in to see what's new, what new and interesting topic someone may have popped in that could develop into a serious, involved discussion.

And I've wondered about the dramatic downturn in traffic. Mostly I attributed it to BGO-which is, after all, a spanking new, well designed site which, again given the number of long-time Redskins fans at TN, would become the main focus of attention for a good many of the members here.

A personal admission is relevant here. I am actually fairly new to the idea of the "social" web, mostly considering it a repository of information, ideas, new things to discover and not necessarily new people to meet. To a large extent, TN was a major factor in changing that. What drew me to TN was the meeting and getting to know people whose intelligence, insights, and desire to interact with like-minded people-and to do so respectfully and with manners-was to a certain extent a surprise to me. As a result, I've come to know people who I've come to like and respect as friends whose views and insights I enjoy because they provide a springboard for my own ruminations and contributions. I respond to people but seldom do I initiate the interaction. I am, perhaps surprisingly, somewhat introverted. John and Mark approached me about doing a blog at TN and I turned them down because, well, blogging just isn't me. I love the interaction of the forums but I seldom start threads. I may pop one in, for example here, usually dealing with either something technical or something I find funny that I think might be enjoyed by the members but my temperament simply isn't suited for being able to ask a question that blossoms into a multi-post thread. I've had one or two posts do that and I was, frankly, quite surprised at the response. The reason is that I usually don't have a clue as to what the interest level of others might be. My interests are so varied and occasionally highly specialized that it's difficult to imagine which might appeal to whom.

So, where have I been? Simple, I followed a large group of friends over to the BGO site. It's new and shiny and slick and itself has drawn a number of dissatisfied ES'ers because the tone there is reminiscent of the tone here at TN.

I am not even considering the idea of abandoning TN-it needs to be here because of its nature as an oasis.

I have been viewing the lack of activity at TN as a lull, a football season driven shift of interest that does not reflect on TN and what is trying to be accomplished here, but is simply a manifestation of the ebb and flow of the variety of interests the members-in-common have. I do not, myself, perceive a death-knell as much as a hiatus. I'll be checking periodically to see what some clever member has brought up that draws everyone's attention.

Oh, and Meteor, I would like to meet you as well. I don't drink so you'll have to enjoy the wine yourself, but I'd love a conversation on, say, whether Cedar Hills football team is better than Woodson.

Well, I've been thinking of making this post a blog entry but it seems more appropriate here now. I am a member of the BGO site (they are doing a great job over there by the way) but I'm not a owner. This is the only board I have an official stake in.

The big reason I've slowed down my posting is my running troubles. My heel hasn't gotten any better over the past two months. I tried walk/running through September but just couldn't keep it up, which has been incredibly frustrating for me. And then the day I was supposed to go to the foot doctor I noticed an excruciating pain on the left side of my mid-section. Literally the worst pain I've ever felt in my life. Turns out I have a kidney stone. So apparently on the eve of my 40s my body has decided to go into full rebellion and I'm not even going for walks anymore. I've gained 10 pounds since I've stopped running and feel ... well ... old.

And unfortunately, every day I'm not writing about running on this board reminds me of that. So, in a most cowardly fashion I've kinda been avoiding this place.

I think I just need to figure out something else to write about for awhile.

Anyway, that's my personal reason for letting things go here. I've never been a very prolific writer, preferring to let others start threads and then respond to them. But lately I haven't even been doing that.

So with this post, I guess I'll start up again.

And, with my 44th post, I shall respond.......

Meteor, I just thought I'd chime in real quick 'cause I'm short of time, which in and of itself, should explain a lot.

I came to TN thru your brother, Mark, who I ran into on the ES site. He and I became friends originally due to our common interest, the Redskins. Since then, however, we've become friends beyond the scope of the gridiron.

I started visiting this site at his invitation, and came to really enjoy the discourse. When I brought the page up today, I was surprised and saddened to see (and to think) that the site was coming to an end. Of course, since the BGO site came on-line, that has been the subject of most of my conversations with Mark....and my forays online. Now, with football season well underway, it's clearly a focus for me.

Ask Mark someday to forward on to you my "run-on" email....sent to him one day after a glass of wine. In one HUGE paragraph, it sums up the last few months of my life. It's been a busy time. Two young daughters....a loving wife.....moved into a rental home so our own home can be remodeled (re-built, really - an 8 month ordeal), a sudden hernia operation, the dog got cancer, I work about 100 hours a week producing a well-known television show.....hmmm.....what else would keep me away?

Oh yeah. Sometimes when I come on here I feel stupid.

Not really....but y'gotta admit, there are some pretty awesome minds visiting this place. And, they can TYPE!

So, I guess for me, the reason why I haven't been around lately can simply be labeled as having been "really, really, really, really, really flipping busy".

Sometimes, life has a nasty habit of taking over.

Still, I'd hate to see this place disappear........it's always nice to have someplace to go to stretch your legs.

Gotta run! (Of course)

Bruce

Just to be clear - this place isn't going anywhere We'll get the old heap going again. When we patch up the cracks in the vinyl benchseats, you won't even notice she wasn't purring along for awhile ...

I bear a fair amount of responsibility for The Quieting of TN. As one of the driving forces behind creating, maintaining and growing the place, my lack of involvement over the past few months has necessarily had a pretty dramatic effect.

I just want to let everyone know that the reasons for my absence have been rather dramatic changes in my personal life ... including my marriage (turns out I'm actually a man trapped inside a woman trapped inside a man's body and have had to undergo two operations--one to become a woman then another to get me back where I started) ... my residence (as in I am between them at the moment) ... my employment (figured I better get a day job since my writing career hasn't netted me any, you know, money so far) ... and I'm sure some other stuff you'd find equally interesting/compelling.

Not saying this for sympathy, just for the record and explanation. The absence has not been fun for me. This place was and is a big part of my life---not just the site itself, but what it means to me---and letting it founder has been another bit of stress heaped atop everything else.

Good news is, like the other areas, this is one I can, and am, working my way through. Need proof? Look who wrote this post.

Boone, Henry, Pravda and I all love this place, and don't intend to let it slip away. We will be reinvigorating, recommitting and maybe even relaunching ... and it's my sincere hope that those of you who have given it its' soul with your thoughts, words and remarkable insights will stay the course with us.

We have something special here, and there's a definite dearth of such things 'out there' in the world ... it would be a crime to let this one die on the vine.

IMO, there's a lot of reasons that this place has slowed, most of which have already been mentioned. And it IS football season, after all

For me personally, there are several reasons I don't post a lot. As for the other members not posting much I think you may have previously mentioned this John, is the POSSIBLE perception that this place is a harbor for heady types. Snoots. Snobs. This is an good and bad thing, as it tends to keep the Neanderthals out, with the exception of your truly. But it may be keeping others out as well. Just a thought.


And despite my previous life at ES, I'm generally of the persuasion that you can't learn while you're running your yap. Shocking, I know.

Not to say that I don't have opinions, I do. But in keeping with the intended spirit of the place, I haven't posted too many of them. Oh I've tried. A post here, a post there in the news section, just to see if I could get a response. Nada. I'm sure I could get a response if I posted something from the Sarge of old. I mean, look who's president. It's almost too easy. But again, I know you all wanted to keep things more low key............


Perhaps if you opened a political forum, found and invited Crazyhorse and Chommie here, and we squared off like days of old, some folks would join the fray and generate some traffic. But like I said, I know you all wanted to go a different direction, and I completely respect that.

On another note, since becoming a civilian, I lead a pretty boring life. Up at 0330 and off to DC. I can't talk about my job much. I go home with the rest of the drones and maniacs, eat dinner, mess with the kids and go to bed around 830/900. Lather, rinse, repeat during the week. BOOOOOOR-RIIIIIIING. Not much to contribute there.

And maybe that's one of the things about the traffic. In talking to my peers, most people know now run kinda the same routine in life. Minus talking about sports and politics, life is pretty much Groundhog Day for a lot of peeps. And that's not saying that there aren't interesting folks here. There are. But as for myself, without being in the military and having a job I can't talk about, life is pretty much the same most of the time.

It's a great place, and it's great talking with and finding old internet friends that I lost with my abrupt dismissal from ES, but for me, being a pretty private type person to begin with, I am more inclined to read than to post.

Just my 2 cents

Jeez Om, now I feel like a big whiner.

On the plus side, I've lost 30 pounds.

I think I've found the ultimate weight loss solution.

Sorry to hear about your rough patch there Mark. On the bright side, when things are at their lowest, you can only go up from there

It seems that we are getting enough answers to start seeing trends.

Trend #1: Everybody is busy. Neophyte (child), Boone (building BGO), Bruce (home remodel), Om (you name it). With only 43 active contributors, if only a few guys get too busy, traffic dies off pretty quickly. Also, several TN members have mentioned how posting on TN requires thought, research, and time to write. That's true. The subject and format here do not lend themselves to quick, random, casual comments. I suspect that's why the "book of the month" thing didn't work. TN members didn't have time to read a book and then formulate a lengthy essay to post.

Trend #2: Servumtuum, Sarge, and Bruce all mentioned football season and BGO as taking up their time. As I alluded to in my original post, I think that a fair percentage of the TN membership are more interested in discussing Jason Campbell than federal health care reform. (I don't blame them.) For TN to succeed in it's current "no Redskins" format, it probably needs to attract more "non-Redskins & NFL" members.

Trend #3: Bruce said "Oh yeah. Sometimes when I come on here I feel stupid. Not really....but y'gotta admit, there are some pretty awesome minds visiting this place. And, they can TYPE!" Sarge said "As for the other members not posting much I think you may have previously mentioned this John, is the POSSIBLE perception that this place is a harbor for heady types. Snoots. Snobs." Could be. This may be at the root of the TN identity issues. On the one hand, we want members to write or blog or discourse in well thought out and grammatical fashion on esoteric subjects. On the other hand, we may only have time to write "WTF, dude?" How does TN resolve this? Or does the format just not work?

Life has been busy - not related to football. I dip in and out on occasion. I hope to do more of it.