theNoosphere.com

I'm thoroughly amazed that none here has touched on the subject of the massive Toyota recall.

Let me say, I'm a loyal Toyota devotee, and will continue to purchase their vehicles. We're a three Toyota family, with the 91 Previa, 06 Scion XA, and the 08 FJ Cruiser.

As for the recalls themselves, I see more knee jerk reaction then actual problems, fueled by the instant information age, and quite possibility the US auto industry. While I completely agree this is a serious recall, the odds of having a problem is one in ten thousand. Through the years, many manufacturers have had huge safety related recalls that were taken care of without all the hubbub. I've personally had to deal with a few while in service management, but we didn't have what we have today in the way of media coverage.

Just one good example was the GM recall on retaining clips that secured the rear brake cylinders. It effected the Pontiac Gran Prix, Buick Regal, Olds Cutlas, and Chevy Monte Carlo. All basically the same cars, and in a range from 1982 to 1987, we're talking millions of cars that could loose their brakes completely if the clip failed, and the cylinder twisted, allowing the fluid to be pumped out as you stepped on the pedal.

I'd venture a guess that nobody here has ever heard of that recall, unless they had owned one of those cars. This is where I see the US auto industry giving a push to keep this in the media as often and for as long as it can be dragged out. GM and Ford are offering incentives to trade your effected vehicle in. It's a home run for them if you do. They get the sale, and have a high quality used car they can sell for a premium.

Have you heard about the recall on the Ford Hybrid for a software update to give a more positive feel in the anti-lock brake system. While it only effects a fraction of the cars compared to the Toyota recall, it made the news as a quick note.... one or two nights.

Mountains out of mole hills......

Where I find the greatest fault with Toyota is in their delayed action in rectifying the problem. They blew it in a big way, but I'll still stick with the company's product. I've had far better service out of Toyota then any other brand, even Honda.

Pete,

My issue is not just the delayed action in rectifying the problem but the delay in even admitting the problem. First, there was no problem. Then there was but it was caused by the floor mats. Finally, it wasn't the floor mats but the gas pedal.

If I were an owner I would be wondering if they had found root cause yet.

And yeah, the odds are long of experiencing the problem but I can tell you that if I owned one, my wife and kids wouldn't be going anywhere in it. I'm not an alarmist and rarely freak out over much but I don't take chances with my cars. There are too many nuts driving on the road that I can't control as it is so I do everything I can to control what I can when I am in a vehicle.

Is Detroit making some hay at Toyota's expense right now? Probably. Could they have done it if Toyota had not let their core principle of quality slide while chasing quantity? Nope. Not a chance.

I understand where your commin from Neo, but problems finding the root problem is nothing new to the industry. As for quality, it's no worse that it ever was. Every auto maker has recalled vehicles on a regular basis, just not publicized like this. I don't take chances with my cars either, with my wife and daughter driving them, I'm real anal. If you know there's a potential problem, call and get it taken care of ASAP. In the mean time, If you know there's an outside chance of a problem, and are clueless on how to deal with it if it happens, you shouldn't be behind the wheel. A stuck accelerator is covered in all the basic driving classes, as is loss of brakes. The problem is, more then half the people on the road today are completely clueless, except for tuning the stereo, and putting gas in, and were never properly instructed on all aspects of driving.

A perfect current example in finding the root problem is with BMW motorcycles. For almost 8 months now, they have had a stalling problem with their K1300S. Now, it's not a good thing to stall in a car, but try it on a bike in a low speed turn. Unless the rider is very skilled, it on your ass you go more often then not. I've had bikes in for stalling 5 or 6 times, have lost sales, and had bikes bought back by BMW because the finest engineers in the world (so they say) cant pin down the cause.

Their cars have been a nightmare in the past ten years, with many recalls, but you never hear more then a 15 second blurb once on the news, if at all. They have little market share in the US, and compete in a very small segment that isn't a real threat to the US auto makers. Toyota has a huge market share.

Toyota didn't compromise quality for quantity. While Toyota designed it and the fault still squarely falls upon them, any subcontractor can bring up a potential problem with a component there making if they feel there is an issue. The sad part is, if you look at the number of vehicles effected, and the number that have had an actual problem, it is minuscule. Even so, if one person is injured due to a problem, it's completely unacceptable.

Is one safety problem due to a manufacturers defect acceptable. NO, period the end. Is this something that is uncommon in the entire industry. Again, NO.

They all have them all the time, and if there was a huge problem with the Toyota's, it would have been brought to the public's eye a long time ago. When a problem is isolated for the most part, it often takes time to recognize there is in fact a problem. A chance of one in ten thousand is pretty good odds that you'll never have a problem. More so when you look at the number of vehicles that have actually had a problem in the big, world wide picture.

Again, I'm not saying there isn't a problem, or that Toyota handled it as well as they could, but I see it being blown so greatly out of proportion, it's unreal.

OK.... OK.... After tonight's latest problem, I'll have to sit tight and see how this all plays out.

LOL - my first thought on hearing the news of the new steering issue was this thread...

Hey, hammer me if you want. I didn't get the exact figure, but it was around 150 complaints about a feel of lack of steering at highway speeds. That's not a lot of complaints in the big picture, but I'm interested to see where this one goes. Could be a problem, or it could be a deal like the Firestone / Ford situation.

Wow, I haven't checked my tire pressure in 4 months, and now my car doesn't seem to feel right at speed. Must be a manufacturers defect....

I know I must seem like a nut case Neo. Being in the business for most of my life, I just tend to look at the overall picture. It's a numbers game of total units produced, and number of complaints / problems that I use to determine weather something is being blown out of proportion. In my business, I have to be this way.

I never deny a problem, just the actual extent compared to the public perception.

No Pete. Never. Sorry if it came off as I was hammering you. I was not trying to do that.

And I am completely familiar with the big picture idea. I'm not in cars but anyone in manufacturing goes through it. I get beat up every day by customers who have an issue with a unit or a firmware build from my company that no one else in the world is having a problem with. I am often left explaining that I have tens of thousands of units deployed world wide and no one else is seeing the same issue. Sometimes I am believed, sometimes not.

I have no doubt that the same is true for the Toyota situation.

I will only say two things about this situation though.

First, Toyota said there was no problem even when there was enough evidence out there to indicate that there was indeed a problem, even if it only effected a very small percentage of the vehicles. Had they just admitted it and gone to work on it up front, this would have all blown over by now.

Second, you have to admit that when a problem extends to 8 or more models and each of those over multiple model years, it is a news worthy event. Especially when the company is now the #1 car manufacturer in the world.

And no, I don't think you are a nut case. I think you are guy with a unique perspective because of your position and I appreciate your insight into this kind of thing.

I must be the nutcase. All I have been able to think about regarding this and Toyota situation is, "I wonder if I can get a good deal right now?" Always been a Honda girl myself, but if the price is right....must be crazy.

Neo, I didn't think you were even remotely hammering me, and you didn't come off that way. I was saying that you could if you wanted. I can be a bit hard headed, and it takes a hammer, brick, or ball bat to get through to me at times LOL

I agree with your two points.

JM, give it till we hear more from the fed gov. Could be a perfect time to buy. You really can't go wrong with either brand. I worked for Honda back in the late 80's as a quality controller, and It was like being the Maytag man.